Avoiding Evangelism Traps
Foreward	There are occasions where non-Christians may directly challenge your faith. This following conversation took place on IRC (Internet Relay Chat) by one who claimed to represent an online web-based magazine. The interviewer - as noted by the initials "MDC" - opened and offered this interview in the open chat channel. Naturally, many young enthusiastic Christians jumped at the opportunity. Being present at the time, I offered to speak with him. What you will notice is that the line of questioning is designed to make the average untrained "typical" Christian a fool by trapping him or her with his/her own "predictable" responses, thereby reinforcing the atheists' premise that Christianity is biased, bigoted and outdated. Read the interview carefully, as well as the comments, and see the direction MDC tried to take with his questions. Ultimately, we as Christians need to change our responses to correlate better with what the Bible really says, rather than what our traditions and denominations have said for years - which now turns people away. Albert Einstein said that if we keep repeating a process and expect different results, it is insanity. Offline comments are indented and in teal like this.
The Interview	MDC - Would anyone be interested in doing an interview for my 'zine? We're wanting to interview someone who takes the Bible as a whole. Do you qualify as that type of person? WarAngel - Sure... I'll do my best. MDC - Okay, now you do consider yourself one who takes the Bible, as a whole, yes? WarAngel - Yes I do. :) MDC - Do you believe in it, literally? Many denominations, because of their "literal interpretation only" approach to the Bible (e.g. Fundamentalists) are "toyed" with because of their predictability. The first basis of people attacking you as a Christian is usually if you're a Fundamentalist or not. WarAngel - Well, you see, the Bible has to be taken both literally and figuratively. It depends on the context. You get into trouble if you go to either extreme, and thus you lose a Biblical balance. MDC - So how do you feel about the Bible rules about homosexuality? Here, MDC poses a question that an unprepared Christian can walk into and easily be made to look like a fool. WarAngel - To answer that, let's look at God for a moment. God is a God of love and mercy, right? MDC - Yes... WarAngel - And He's also a God of tremendous holiness and incredible righteousness. MDC - Okay... WarAngel - His love causes Him to forgive, when we repent.... MDC - Alright... WarAngel - But His righteousness causes Him to judge sin if we don't.... With that background established, let me say this... MDC - And... WarAngel - No matter how certain pockets of Christianity have represented or mispresented the Bible, to the like or the dislike of the homosexual community.... God loves the sinner but hates the sin. He created Male and Female, and created sex so that they could procreate. He also created sex for the purpose of marriage between male and female... So any occurence of sex outside of that holy matrimony is, technically, sin. Now, the Bible's position that homosexuality is sin does not mean that people should condemn homosexuals (if that's what you're getting at). So, back to you. :) Fundamentalists have traditionally condemned gays and have communicated, basically, "God hates faggots." First off, use of such derogatory language is not Biblically justified. Nor is such self-righteous judgementalism. If you sincerely wish to lead them to Christ, you have to first dispel the negative sentiment created by Fundamentalists and then represent proper Biblical perspective in scriptural balance. MDC - What I'm wondering is, it actually says in the Bible that homosexuals should be put to death, do agree with that? WarAngel - Good question.... There is a lot of animosity against the Bible because of very extreme things like that in the Old Testament. I don't recall if there is any such verse, but then again, it's possible.... But the point is this. There is a key verse in the New Testament that sums up how we should look at the Old Testament. MDC - You agree that God is a God of mercy, but a God who kills one on the basis of their sexual orientation certainly couldn't be called merciful. WarAngel - And without this "decoder key" - as it were - it is easy to interpret the Old Testament in any way you want, which can be either incorrect or irresponsible. MDC - Okay, but I believe the Bible makes like statements in the new testament, the book of John to be exact. Be careful not to be overwhelmed with being asked more than one question, when the first requires much time and care to answer. Be free to moderate the "flow" or "speed" of the conversation. Better to clearly communicate one point and take a long time, than to blunder on multiple points. WarAngel - Well we're discussing more than one issue here, let's take them one at a time.... First, can you provide me with the verse? I don't have a Bible handy. MDC - Hmmm...I'll try... WarAngel - Let me ask you this: is the central issue of this interview whether the Bible is right or wrong in saying that homosexual sex is wrong? Here I define the issue and keep the other party focused. Accomplish one point at a time. MDC - Yes. It's quite evident that within the realm of Christianity there is a lot of what we would regard as "homophobic" sentiments. We'd like to explore the basis for those beliefs. WarAngel - (the GospelCom.NET Bible search program does not show any verses in the Book of John containing the word "homosexual.") Sure.... In terms of homophobia, let's first emphasize that homophobia is found in every level of society, in any person regardless of religious belief. MDC - Well, what does the New Testament, as a whole say about homosexuality? WarAngel - Can we agree on that emphasis, first of all? MDC - What emphasis? Oh I see...sorry WarAngel - Right. :) See, anyone can be homophobic, even atheists. MDC - Oh, I'm not agreeing with you per say...I found your post...that's what I meant by "i see" WarAngel - My point is this. One of the reasons why the Bible is so contested on its stance on homosexuality is that most people who are affected by homophobia - i.e. the gay and lesbian community - generally see Christians or "Christians" and not necessarily the Bible itself. MDC - I do agree with you, but for a large portion of people, the bible plays a large role in their perception of homosexuals. And that's what the interview is exploring, the Christian realm. WarAngel - Thus, if Christians or "Christians" - who are in essence people like you and I - react out of homophobia, it is easy to put one-plus-one in your head and then determine that the Bible must be the cause of this horrific homophobia. MDC - Wait, I'm not Christian persay...I'm still searching for my spiritual identity. WarAngel - Well, let's consider this.... A true Christian obeys the word of God in that we are to love our friends, enemies, people we know, people we don't know, etc. MDC - Yes. WarAngel - God's heart, in the Book of Revelation, is that He loves us first despite our present condition... i.e. "Unto Him that loved us and washed us in His own blood." God accepts you on the basis of who you are. He takes care of the rest afterwards. As a born-again Christian and one who lives according to the Word of God, I have a place in my heart for gays and lesbians. I don't condemn them to hell, or tell them God hates them. God does not hate them. Otherwise, why did the Lord Christ suffer and die for them? Here is my opportunity to gently present the Gospel to him. Sowing seed, as it were. And why not? I may never get the chance to see him again! MDC - But I don't think we should be seeing them as gays or lesbians before we see them as people. WarAngel - Yes. God does not necessarily look at our "pollution" as much as he looks at our potential. MDC - But is love pollution? WarAngel - I like Amy Grant's song, "She's got her Father's eyes... Eyes that see the good in things." MDC - Homosexual love is love, just like heterosexual love. WarAngel - Let's separate sex from love. Many will tell you that sex does not equal love. MDC - I am seeing them as separate. WarAngel - I love my brother. I love certain friends as brothers. Those brothers are male. Does that make me homosexual? No. MDC - Sex is (should be) an expression of love. WarAngel - If I, being male, have sex with a male, that is the area that God says is sin. MDC - No, and that's why I choose to address "homosexual love" WarAngel - Hmmm... MDC - i.e. love within a homosexual relationship... WarAngel - Okay, that's an extremely good point. Is homosexual love valid in the Bible? Well let's define the word "homosexual." It appears from a breakdown of the words that it is "homo" meaning "same" or referring to MDC - One who identifies romantically with the same sex... WarAngel - "same sex". And the word "sexual" means, well, "sexual or pertaining to sex." Yes... MDC - Are you implying that homosexual relationships are inherently purely sexual? Possibly a trapping question. Many Christians make the mistake of saying that "homosexual love" is purely sexual. Some have a true brotherly or sisterly love for one another, and that should not be devalued. It is the romantic and sexual love that the Bible says is not meant for same-sex relationships. WarAngel - Or one who identifies romantically and sexually with the same sex. In other words, the feelings a man is to have towards a woman in terms of bonding in matrimony (and vice versa) should not be expressed to a member of the same sex. MDC - I'm trying to see your point... WarAngel - Right. Now, get this.... The Bible commands us to love one another. But that is not an "eros" or erotic love. That is an agape or phileo love, as the words are in the original Greek. That's a big difference. MDC - Homosexual relationships are purely sexual, is that what you're saying? If MDC is trying to bait me, I won't take his bait. I'll define the terms by defining what love is versus what sex is. WarAngel - Homosexuals may love each other in an erotic sense, but they may also love each other in a brotherly sense. Understand that the Bible does not in any way condemn the latter. I'm making no such statement that homosexual relationships are purely sexual. MDC - Why do you think a homosexual can't love another homosexual as a man can love a woman, and vice versa? MDC - Okay, I thought you were... WarAngel - Right... and it's natural for you to think I am, because people have been somewhat conditioned to think that Christians are anti-homosexuals, etc. MDC - So you agree that, like heterosexual couples, homosexual couples do love each other. WarAngel - I'm sure, by the way, that I would come under fire from the more Fundamentalist of my brethren, but I will stand on God's word, and not add any personal homophobia to my obedience to God's word. MDC - No, I thought you were because I was unclear about a few statements you made. WarAngel - Right... just bear with me. In each of my answers, I have to preface the answer with the stereotyped "view" of what people think we Christians believe. Then I dispel it. Or "dispense". I need a dictionary. :) So your question: like heterosexual couples, homosexual couples do love each other. The answer is yes. And that love might be very true. But God wants something higher. For the heterosexual. For the homosexual. MDC - What could be wrong with that? WarAngel - We all lack the true love of God. We don't believe in Him. MDC - Okay... MDC - The question is, why is homosexuality a sin? WarAngel - Good question. Again, let me give you a backdrop, and then bring out the main characters, so to speak. MDC - When homosexuality is a natural occurance. WarAngel - From the beginning of time, God has intended to walk among man. The Bible says that He walked with Adam in the cool of the day. MDC - It occurs in the animal kingdom too. WarAngel - But we are not animals, we are mammals. My Biology book tells me so. Anyways, may I continue? MDC - let's keep this focussed. WarAngel - Yes, but I must give you this backdrop. MDC - Okay...go with the backdrop... WarAngel - Otherwise this conversation will not be out-standing. MDC - go on... WarAngel - Since the dawn of time, God has wanted Man to experience His everlasting love. The love of an Everlasting Father. Man chose to sin out of his free will, and that sin became the barrier of our understanding such amazing and endless love. Were we to fully understand it, our lives would never be the same. Were we to catch a real glimpse of Christ's heart as he looked from the cross to the people who were mocking him, we would break down and cry. Thus, the true author of love is God. God is our creator. God is love, by definition and by person. So our approximations of love, while sometimes very true, are still a far cry from God's love. If God is truly our creator and has the right to define what is righteous and what is not.... Then who are we to assume God's place and determine right and wrong for ourselves? MDC - The question is, what is the basis for the belief that homosexuality is sin? It's evidence is the Bible. That's how people justify it, yes? WarAngel - God defined the rules by which we can enjoy it. Enjoying sex outside of the rules will please you, no doubt, but not please God. WarAngel - All right... since morality and righteousness is relative with each religion and each person, then without an absolute standard, I cannot tell you what the standards of right and wrong are. It's impossible. My conscience may tell me stealing is wrong. Another may have stolen so many times that his conscience no longer warns him or her. So if morality is relative, we are in a state of anarchy where our relationships will hurt one another. MDC - The question is, is the Bible the only evidence that homosexuality is a sin. The only clue to what "god wants"? WarAngel - I read in a newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, that there was some measured increase in the number of same-sex domestic violence. MDC - wonderful...answer my question, please? WarAngel - The Bible, in that regard, is not 'evidence' but more a 'precept.' If you're looking for evidence, then you might be looking in the wrong place altogether! But if you are looking to please God and follow His commandments, then you take the whole package and not only that which pleases you. God's more interested in our character than our comfort. MDC - Whatever...it's the source of the belief, is it not? WarAngel - No. MDC - It's what people use as evidence, as justification. Because it is the written record of "what god wants"? WarAngel - Atheists can be homophobic. Rednecks who may not be Christians at all may go around with baseball bats to bash gays. Is the Bible the source of their homophobia? Not at all. They may never have even read the Bible. MDC - The question is... is the bible the source of the belief that homosexuality is a sin (i.e. against God...). This is outside the realm of secular homophobia. WarAngel - Well, God does not want sex - which is His gift - to be used outside of His holy parameters. But when Christians respond with "that's what God wants" they may be responding incorrectly because the -question- was posed to them incorrectly. WarAngel - Yes, for the Christian, the Bible shows us that homosexuality is a sin. Does God hate the sinner, the homosexual? No. It's very important to mention this point. Or counterpoint. By answering MDC directly with "Yes" I would have given him fuel to state that Christians are anti-gay based on the Bible. That is why homosexuals work hard to completely invalidate the Bible, be it scholastically, be it philosophically, and be it trying to find all its translational biases and errors. Stating the answer with balance is the only way to begin to break the stereotype against Christians that MDC has of us. MDC - Okay, finally, an answer. WarAngel - I cannot answer superficially. Your questions carry the weight of many years of people's hurts, misunderstandings, condemnation, and such. WarAngel - As a Christian who has seen abuses of religion to stamp out their homophobia is sad. I must - as a Christian - stand up to that. The reason why so many homosexuals actively politically lobby against the Christian right is that somewhere along the line a Christian (Fundamentalist or not) hurt and condemned that person and told the homosexual "God hates you because you're gay." First, that's not Biblically balanced. Second, that was said because of the Christian's own natural personal revulsion towards homosexuality. This lethal combination does not reflect God's heart. That is why gays and lesbians have a large "anti-theology" to state why not to believe in the Bible! MDC - Now, the Bible is a book, a historical record, passed down for centuries, yes? WarAngel - Yes, and more. MDC - It's original texts were written in languages and dialects not spoken anymore. WarAngel - It's a historical record, but we Christians believe - and the Bible claims - that God wrote the Bible through many men of God, prophets, priests, and kings. Hebrew is still spoken. Greek is still spoken. MDC - Those texts were translated, transcribed, by people, mortal people, who sin, who hate, who are bigoted. MDC - True, Hebrew is still spoken. WarAngel - So you're wondering if the Bible we have today is mistranslated? MDC - But the dialect of Greek is different... WarAngel - True, but the essential meanings are not kept from us. MDC - I'm saying it is mistranslated. WarAngel - Okay, so you feel it's mistranslated. How would you like me to address that? The homosexual community has attempted to disprove the Bible by making statements that it is mistranslated. Fundamentalists enjoy the King James Version and incorrectly state that it is flawless. There are actually more accurate translations than the KJV, but this stiff-necked attitude being for KJV and only KJV is very easily humiliated with some actual evidence of translational errors. The translational errors are actually very minor and do not deter from the meaning of the Bible. MDC - Right...and the essential meanings are love and acceptance for all...although people have injected things over the years, that Jews are the devil, that homosexuals are sinners, that women are lesser...we have to get past the distortions and try to see what really is the essence of the Bible, yes? WarAngel - Interesting. But that would leave, again, the Bible purely up to our varying and relative interpretation. There again is no absolute. I'm not sure what scholarship determined that the Bible is mistranslated to that extent. The Bible is an absolute in a society where we all claim that there are no absolutes. If morality is left to the morally-challenged human being to define, we are in danger of damaging each other tremendously. MDC - I'm saying the Bible is hardly credible if you want to get literal about it. I'm saying if you want to look at passages that say homosexuality is a sin and that Jews are the devil you have you maybe think that the person that distorted that passage was homophobic or anti-semitic. WarAngel - It would certainly be outnumbered and outclassed by all Jewish, Christian, etc. Bible scholars and archaeologists who would and could determine otherwise. WarAngel - Well, the "Jews being the devil" and thus the false basis for Christians to despise Jews is not Biblical. If you read Luke more carefully, Luke was a physician. He was trying to show that how "we" Jews killed our Messiah. MDC - You don't deny that homophobia and anti-semitism have been societal conventions for centuries. And that the people who subscribe to these ideologies were in places of power, who had the power to distort the bible. See what MDC is saying here? He's trying to state that the people who translated the Bible basically adulterated the Bible to promote their own anti-gay sentiment. Wouldn't this call for a rewriting of the Bible on the whole to make it more compatible with modern morality? WarAngel - Thus the heartbeat behind all that was to alarm all people to the fact that they had killed the Messiah they had awaited for centuries. Well, to claim that these people were more powerful than God such that they could alter the Bible like that, no, I don't agree. Besides, we have some very good manuscripts, very ancient, that have a very high rate of internal consistency in translation. See, with any Bible mistranslation, there must be original manuscripts in the first place to translate from. MDC - I think that people have to realize that the Bible, like all recorded history is subject to distortions. At this point, the conversation has become one-sided. MDC is no longer asking questions but making statements. WarAngel - Some modern-day false translations of the Bible do not reflect any accurate Bible scholarship to merit being called an accurate translation. MDC - Anyway...it's been interesting...thanks for your time. WarAngel - Well, here's the greater issue. It's more convenient to oppose the Bible because there are certain things in us the Bible opposes. MDC - We at Dissent X and Westhuman Anarchist Press would like to thank you. WarAngel - We've suddenly looked in the mirror, adn we don't like what we see. WarAngel - Many thanks indeed... MDC - later. *** DCC CHAT connection to MDC lost: Remote end closed connection
Conclusion	Was this a successful conversation on my part? Hard to say. Some Christians might dismiss any notion of success because I didn't "convert" MDC. However, since the Bible says that it's the Holy Spirit who has to draw people and soften their heart, then I would be working against God's will by "shoving religion down their throats." If they are not receptive in the first place, direct confrontational preaching will not necessarily get through. The conversation was a success in that I managed to communicate answers other than what Christians typically respond with. In so doing, I began to dismantle some of the stereotypes that trap us. If I were being persecuted for my faith, I'd rather it be for what we did right, versus what we did wrong. As you can see, the strategy of atheists and/or homosexuals is to identify the Bible as the source of anti-homosexual sentiment, and then to disprove it, for by so doing, you disprove Christians entirely. However, they are not completely successful because their system for doing so is based on many erroneous and faulty premises. The point I wish to make in this article is that conventional "Hellfire and Brimstone"-style preaching does not work. The people have hardened themselves - not against the Gospel - but against you and I. It is only by directly contradicting the typical responses and by approaching the topic of homosexuality sans our personal biases and feelings - but with Biblical love and accuracy - will be regain the audience of homosexuals. The bottom line is this. I don't want a single homosexual to go to Hell because we failed in properly communicating the Gospel and turned them away due to our own ignorance, bigotry and prejudice.